Wednesday, March 4, 2009

Have you ever wondered...?

Have you ever read a Bible story and wondered what in the world was going on? The characters behaved in inexplicable ways, sometimes even seemingly ignoring common rules of morality, and yet it seem to be implied in the text that what they did was acceptable or even praise-worthy. So we sit back and scratch our heads and wonder, "What in the world just happened?"

I think that coming to Israel and studying here at JUC has helped me to understand a few of those stories a bit better. Let me give you a couple of examples from my study this semester and then you can let me know your thoughts.

Let's start with Genesis 38, Ben's favorite passage of this summer. :) For those of you who might have skipped over this passage in your yearly reading-through-the-Bible-plan, here's a brief synopsis:
1. Judah (son of Jacob) gets married and has 3 sons.
2. Judah gets a wife for his first born son, Er. Her name is Tamar.
3. Er dies before having any children.
4. Judah then marries his second son, Onan, to Tamar (practicing levirate marriage), to raise up an heir for his brother.
5. Onan refuses to give his brother an heir (possible reasons discussed below) and God kills him.
6. Judah's third son, Shelah, is too young to marry, so he sends Tamar back to her father's house to wait for Shelah to grow up.
7. For some reason, Judah never gets around to marrying Tamar to Shelah.
8. Judah's wife dies.
9. Judah goes to shear sheep and Tamar hears about it. She veils herself (like a prostitute) and sits by the road when Judah will pass.
10. Judah does pass, sees Tamar, thinks she is a prostitute, and sleeps with her. He leaves with her his "signet and cord" and staff, as promise that he will pay for the services provided. However, she never comes to claim payment, and no one knows anything of a prostitute in that area.
(If this isn't making sense, read the story in Genesis for yourself.)
11. Tamar is found to be pregnant. Judah is told and recommends that she be punished by death.
12. Tamar then brings out Judah's signet and cord and staff as evidence of the man who made her pregnant.
13. Judah sees them and says, "She has been more righteous than I, because I did not give her to Shelah my son."
14. She bears twins, the first of which, Perez, apparently becomes Judah's heir.

So, we are left with the thought that a woman who seduced her father-in-law is considered righteous? That seems really bizarre.

First of all, we need to realize that culturally speaking, land and heirs were the most important things. These values are echoed throughout the Hebrew Scriptures. Er, as Judah's first born would have inherited the main portion of all that was Judah's, as then his son would be next in line. Because he didn't have a son, Onan was to provide one for him. The inheritance would have then pass over Onan (as the oldest remaining son) and gone to "Er's" son (who would have been biologically the son of Tamar and Onan). Perhaps Onan wanted to insure that the inheritance came to him and his sons, thus explaining why he refused to give Tamar children. Later on, by not making Shelah provide Tamar with a son, Judah was also disregarding the importance of the line of inheritance. So Tamar took things into her own hands. She insured that the line of Judah would be properly continued. Perhaps this is the reason that Judah says she has been more righteous than he. She valued land, inheritance, and had a high respect for the way inheritance should be passed (as confirmed by God in the law later). Perhaps.


Example 2: Ruth
This one is a bit longer, so I'll assume that you know the gist of the story. I'm going to focus on chapter 3 and the happenings at the threshing floor. If you recall, Boaz is eating and drinking at the threshing floor. He goes to lie down and once he's asleep, Ruth goes and uncovers his "feet" and lays down. He wakes up later and tells her "Blessed are you of the Lord, my daughter. For you have shown more kindness at the end than at the beginning, in that you did not go after young men, whether poor or rich."

Have you ever wondered what was going on here? Why this sneaking about the threshing floor? And why is she blessed by Boaz for doing so? We've been reading through Ruth in Hebrew this semester, and this topic came up as some of us were studying together. Someone made an interesting point, which, if not completely correct, is at least worth consideration.

First, let's look at history a little.
Question: Where was Ruth from?
Answer: Moab! (as you all knew)
Question: Who are the Moabites? How did that people start?
Answer: Why, we are told about this in Genesis 19: 30-38, of course. Another rather disturbing story. Lot's two daughters have no prospects for getting husbands, and without a husband or a son, women in that day were pretty well destitute. Once their father died, they would have been as good as dead themselves. So instead, they make their father drunk, and in nine months, each of his daughters gives birth to a son. The son of the eldest daughter was called Moab and the Moabites are decended from him. So, to put it bluntly, Ruth is the decentant of a woman so desperate for a child that she took advantage of her drunk father.

When Ruth arrived at the threshing floor, Boaz's "heart was cheerful." In other words, he was "drunk as a skunk." And she went and uncovered his reglaim, which our Bibles translate as "feet" but which really can mean everything from the waist down. Ruth and Naomi were desperate. Without a man - a son- they were destitute. It would have been understandable if Ruth had taken advantage of Boaz's inebriated state to get a son, as her ancestor did. But she didn't. She gave him the choice: to act like a kinsman redeemer and provide that son properly, or to refuse and effectively condemn her and Naomi to death. Perhaps this is why Boaz calls her blessed. She had more faith in God than her ancestor, Lot's daughter. Perhaps even more faith than Naomi did when she gave Ruth her instructions. And Boaz rewarded her faith by marrying her, redeeming her land, and providing and heir.

Interesting, at least. I'm not convinced that I fully understand either of these stories yet, but I think understanding the culture in which they took place had helped me have at least a little bit of a better grasp on them. Feel free to let me know where you would agree or disagree or if you have a question.

18 comments:

Dr Chris Hill said...

Dear Alana,

Both these stories could have come straight from Coronation Street (famous UK soap opera), and they seem to be nothing more that an attempt to justify some pretty bad behaviour, they certainly don't carry any moral message.
I'm afraid you'll need to face facts Alana, this bible book is a selection of the most ridiculous stories written by ignorant peasants thousands of years ago, and trying to fool yourself that undertaking some deep analysis is going to alter that, is simply delusional.

I've been looking at this religion phenomenon, since reading Richard Dawkins's God Delusion last year, and the more I read (and watch the many good videos on the subject which are available on the web these days), the more it's clear to me that religion is just another case of the 'Group Think' (Kings New Clothes) phenomenon.

Once again please accept I mean no offence by posting my comments, but I really don't think I could be more polite and still make my point effectively.

From
Chris Hill
(Lancaster)

PS.
Which of the many versions of the Bible do you consider to be the right one? (ie King James 1607 version)

Dr Chris Hill said...

Sorry:
Authorised King James Version of the bible was 1611 not 1607.

Dr Chris Hill said...

Sorry to keep posting on this subject, but I've just checked out your Lot story, and found this bit from Genesis 19:8
.........................

Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.
.........................

Lot seems to be trying to persuade the mob to leave the angles alone by offering his daughters up as potential rape victims. Lot appears to be one real sick guy. Anyway if his two visitors were angles surely they were in no danger from the mob anyway, they could always just fly away. Harry Potters got nothing on this nonsense, has it?

From
Chris Hill
(Lancaster)

the real Juniper said...

Just a quick question Mr Hill:
Ok, I'll work here for a second within your worldview and assumptions (something you absolutely refused to do for Alana earlier, but oh well). I'll assume she is delusional, and she merely believes the Bible because everyone around her does so. If this is all true -- what is your point in trying to persuade her that she is? Obviously, she is happily and successfully living this delusion. It's not hurting anyone else. In fact, some of her archeological research applies to things outside the Bible and is used to expand overall human knowledge. Why are you so insistent that she leave her assumed dream world? Does it matter? I don't see you proposing an alternate reality that would make her equally happy. All you want is to fracture what you believe to be a grossly distorted illusion. Why? I know you might use the crusades, for example, to prove that religion can have adverse externalities, but do you really think Alana is a crusader? Nothing she does hurts anyone else. I just want to know what your point is. You claim to "mean no offence," but isn't taking someone's happiness offensive?

Dr Chris Hill said...

Dear Juniper,

A year or so ago I'd have totally agreed with the points you make, in fact I always considered myself CofE (although I never believed in a God) but over the last six or seven months I've come to realise that other peoples religions do hurt us all: I'll try and explain.

First of all I accept that there are big differences in the harm various religions cause. Islam is most certainly at the top of that list, while Buddhism and the CofE are at the very bottom, but they are all harmful in some way. Let's ignore the fact (as most Christians do) that the Bible commands we stone Homosexuals, and people who work on a Sunday, or that the Koran commands that all who do not obey the teachings of Mohamed must be put to death (which it quite clearly does despite what some muslins may say). So to save time I'll concentrate on just one religion Christianity, and just one of the many harms it does.

Christian fundamentalist want Creationism ('Intelligent Design' as it's now been re-branded) to be taught alongside evolution in school, or as they put it 'teach the controversy'. But the truth is there isn't any controversy (at least not among scientist) and it's simply misleading children, and students, to say that there is. Yes there are people who believe the world is only 10,000 years old, but there are also others who believe its flat with just as much conviction. Should all points of views be taught despite them being contrary to all the scientific evidence? And this is just one of thousands of harmful delusions that religion can justify. Briefly others include:

1. Jehovah witnesses refusal to allow Blood transfusions to their children.
2. The Muslim practice of female sexual mutilate
ion.
3. Papist condemnation of birth control, which is particularly harmful in AIDS ridden areas of Africa and Asia.
4. Jewish male sexual mutilation (not the most harmful religious practice I admit, but apart from the fact it's delusional I couldn't think of anything else bad about the Jewish religion).
5. Scientology's mid control techniques.
6. Practically all religions refusal to allow stem cell research which would advance the sum total of human knowledge wonderfully, and produce tremendous benefits to all mankind (and hopefully other life as well).
7. The belief of some fundamental Christians that climate change doesn't matter because God will sort it out, and it must be God's will anyway.

Now obviously I could go on and on, but I won't as this is only a comment section and I don't want to abuse the privilege of posting here.

As for your last point about taking Alana's happiness away, believe me clearing the fog of delusion does not remove happiness, it allows the incredible wonderfulness of the world to be seen for the first time. If that's offensive so be it, free speech has to include the right to offend or it's not free speech.

From
Chris Hill
(Lancaster)

PS.
I apologise for the length of my posting.

Dr Chris Hill said...

Hi Juniper,

Why do I care? This lady puts it far better than I ever could:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1ImMtHrrKo&feature=channel_page

From
Chris Hill
(Lancaster)

Dr Chris Hill said...

Dear Alana,

Firstly; please tell me to stop posting comments if you feel I'm trying to monopolise the discussion, I really won't be offended honestly.

Further to my answer yesterday to 'Juniper' I've just found this story about a current resolution (1014) from the Okalahoma state Legislature, which seems to label evolution as being an unpopular and unsubstantiated theory. The full resolution can be seen at:

http://www.richarddawkins.net/article,3641,Oklahoma-legislator-proposes-resolution-to-condemn-Richard-Dawkins,Thomsen

But I'll cut and paste (OK Cherry Pick) parts of it below:

……………………………………………………………….

WHEREAS, the Department of Zoology at the University of Oklahoma has, as evidenced on the departmental homepage, been framing the Darwinian theory of evolution as doctrinal dogmatism rather than a hypothetical construction within the disciplines of the sciences; and

WHEREAS, not only has the Department of Zoology at the University of Oklahoma been engaged in one-sided indoctrination of an unproven and unpopular theory but has made an effort to brand all thinking in dissent of this theory as anti-intellectual and backward rather than nurturing such free thinking and allowing a free discussion of all ideas which is the primary purpose of a university;
…………………………………………………………………

The resolution goes on to condemn the university's invitation to Richard Dawkins to speak at a meeting on Campus. Even going so far as to point out that it’s a public funded university, which (although I can't prove it) seems to be a veiled financial threat to the institution itself.

Now I'm not saying that this resolution will be passed by the state legislator, I sincerely hope it's rejected by an overwhelming majority, but it does appear to be yet another substantial example of religion trying to suppress both free speech and thought.

My reason for posting it here is that it supports my previous response to Juniper above. I'd like to know if you think I'm being unreasonably critical of religion in general, and Christianity in particular, and if so how is my criticism unreasonable?

From
Chris Hill
(Lancaster)

Alana said...

Dear Chris,
Even if you deny the validity of any religious truth in the Bible, that does not make it invalid as a source of historical and cultural information. Most scholars accept that the Bible contains historical and cultural remembrances, though there are differences on how much to accept. Nevertheless, even if the stories I mentioned never actually happened, they were written by someone (who was probably not just an ignorant peasant – ignorant peasants in that time were unusually not literate and would not have been capable of writing as complex a piece of literature as the Bible), they were written for a purpose, and they had a meaning for the time in which they were written. This blog was an attempt to break through our western mind-set to try to understand what the people who wrote or read this narrative would have understood. The same could (and should) be done for pretty much any other work of literature. I admit that I was hoping more for comments on my understanding of these stories than critiques on the validity of the Bible as a source of truth.

I don’t consider any one translation of the Bible to be the “right” one.

I will not argue that many horrible things have been done in the name of religion. Indeed, I could even add more to your list. However, it could also be argued that horrible things have been done in the name of science, and yet you don’t condemn all science as bad. Just because horrible things have been done in the name of religion, it does not necessarily follow that all religion is invalid.

If you condemn all religions, then I must ask where you get your ideas of right and wrong. Some of the things in your list I would agree are “wrong” but others I don’t really have a problem with. I base my ideas of right and wrong on the Bible. What do you base yours on? And what makes your idea of morality any better than the morality of the religions you are condemning?

I am not going to write anything further on this topic here now as I would like to try to keep comments more on the topic of the original post. Since you feel so passionately about this subject, perhaps you could start your own blog on it as a better forum for discussion.

Alana

Dr Chris Hill said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Dr Chris Hill said...

Dear Alana,

OK thanks for you reply. As you say you don't want to use this blog to continue the discussion, Ill answer your questions in a separate post which you can read (but need not post), thus leaving this blog clear for the more traditional religious comments. As for your idea that I should start my own blog on religious ideas, I'm afraid there are thousands out there already both pro and anti religion. Unfortunately there seems to be a divide, at least in the blog sphere, with neither side really being welcome to post on the others blogs. Plus I run several blogs already entirely unconnected with religion, so time must be a consideration as well.

Anyway Alana keep well, and I'll answer your questions about the source of my morality in a private posting later.

From
Chris Hill
(Lancaster)

Dr Chris Hill said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Dr Chris Hill said...

(I realise this is too long for a comment section so please feel free to remove it. I won't claim it's censorship)

Dear Alana,

Well starting with your first comment, about my denying the truth of the Bible, I'll try and cover each of your points in turn.

1.
I don't need to deny the truth of the Bible as it's never been established, and moreover there seems to be overwhelming evidence against it being anything other than a digest of folk tales. The Bible as a book was constructed in the 4th or 5th Century AD (I can't remember the actual date) by a conference of Christian holy men on a show of hands to decide what should go in and what should be left out. Now I'm all in favour of democracy in government, but it's simply nonsense as a way of deciding history. Your idea that the Bible needs to be understood in the same way as any other work of literature, is very revealing simply because that exactly what it is a work of literature not a dictate from a super being.

2.
The point about bad things being done in the name of science is of course valid, but remember many of the scientist committing these acts would have been religious, ie religion didn't stop them from doing evil. And I'm told that the overwhelming majority of people in US jails claim to be religious. So the fact that both (along with many other ideologies) can be abused may seem irrelevant, but the fact that religious works often support such evil cannot be ignored. Science has no morality, nor should it have, but of course individual scientist should.

3.
This leads on to your question about the source of my morality. I like to think that it comes from a number of sources such as: the law of the land, my parents and grandparents, common sense and logic, and the evolutionary drive. That last one may seem strange, but I think much morality (contrary to Richards Dawkins's view) can be derived from evolutionary theory. People who have an inclination to morality will find a source with or without religion, and I my view morality based on logic must be better that that based on a digest of 2000 year old ideas, which in the past has been used to justify many terrible deeds.


Now all the points above are interesting, but they really don't address my main point that belief in a God is delusional. And it's a delusion that reaches back far further than the Bible, many thousands of years further back in fact. It also covers many peoples of the world who reject the Bible and say my religion is the only correct way to worship the one true God or in some cases Gods. Alana all religions are nonsense, there is simply not one scrap of evidence for any of them. You are an intelligent lady, for all our sakes please pull yourself out of this delusional concept of a super being. You have nothing to lose but a blindfold on life.

From
Chris Hill
(Lancaster)

PS.
I've never been a big Obama fan, but I've just now heard he has lifted a ban on federal stem cell research funding. Well done Mr President!

Dr Chris Hill said...

Hi Alana,

Simply ignoring these questions doesn't make them any the less valid, nor will it make them disappear in a puff of smoke. They remain issues that you should consider very seriously before you waste anymore of your life following a delusion. Please Alana question some of the ideas you hold so dear, it may not be easy but it could just turn out to be the most enlightening experience of your life.

As always keep well.
Chris Hill
(Lancaster)

Alana said...

Dear Chris,

Simply because I do not have the time or energy to respond to all of your numerous questions, please do not assume that I am ignoring them in hopes that they will go away.

I do not think that belief in God is delusional. I see evidences of God everywhere, and could accuse you of being delusional for ignoring such clear evidence. I have studied math and science and have seen in both so much exquisite detail, utterly beyond the capability of man or natural selection to create. It takes far more faith to believe that all of this came from nothing and chaos than to believe that there was a designer and creator.

However, for the sake of argument, let us say that I am wrong and you are right: "There is no God and the Bible is a pack of lies made to enslave us and lead us astray." Say that I die, still believing in the God of the Bible, and you die still firmly denying his existence. What is the difference between us then? We both (I'll assume) had good lives, good deaths, and in spite of our differences, we're both dead and now there's no difference. Doesn't really give me much incentive to change my mind. I mean, sure, truth is good, but practically speaking, in this scenario, knowing the full truth didn't make much of a difference in life or death.

Now, say that I'm right and you're wrong: "There is a God and the Bible is true." This time, we both live happy lives, we both die. I, having trusted in Jesus for my salvation, go to eternal reward. You, having denied the existence of God all your life are rudely awakened to discover that He does exist and are sentenced to eternal torment for rejecting Christ.

(Please know that I don't spell out these scenarios to be condemning or vengeful, just to spell out the consequences of our different beliefs.)

I kind of think I come out pretty well in either scenario. Frankly, your beliefs don't give me a huge incentive to change my mind. Now, I don't want to spend my life believing a lie, it's true. But I am fully convinced, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually, that it's not a lie.

Alana

Dr Chris Hill said...

Hi Alana,

Firstly thanks for taking the trouble to reply, and I apologise if I jumped the gun by suggesting you were trying to avoid the issue, clearly you aren't! As this comment section is now way down the list of posts on this blog, I don't think I need to worry about monopolising it. Most people will comment on the later postings rather than here, but please tell me if you think I'm wrong on that score.


Anyway let me address the points you raise in turn:

1. You can't demonstrate the Bible's validity by quoting sections that say it's valid because anything can be proved using that logic. So believing the Bibles is right because 'Jesus said it is', simply isn't a logical position to hold, and remember even the very existence of Jesus himself is a contentious issue among historians. I have to admit my own opinions on Jesus's existence (as an historical figure a mean) aren't very relevant here, but if the stories are based on a real historical figure then he was a human being the same as we all are.

2. Your contention that because the world contains questions that we don't yet have answers for, that that proves God exists is again simply not rational. Taking that line would mean that with every new found answer to one of those questions, God's existence becomes a little less likely.

3. Pascal's wager: ie if I'm right I benefit, if you're right so what! This too isn't rational because even if God does exits (which of course there is not one single scrap of evidence for), who's to say he's not the God of the muslims, Hindus, Catholics, Jews, Scientologist, or any other of what I'm told is over 7000 faith based beliefs world wide, which also believe they are the one true way into heaven. So it's not a 50-50 bet. And if I'm right (which all reason and logic says I am), you will have spent your life in pursuit of a delusion, and worse still will have helped perpetuate that delusion in others. Your playing of the Pascal's wager card, might also suggest that you believe only because of the rewards it might bring, not because of any great drive for the truth.

4. Any suggestion that you're being either judgmental or vengeful could not have been further from my mind. You are clearly a nice and good person, who has simply become caught up in a human delusion of thousands of years standing. That delusion was born out of ignorance and fear, and is perpetuated by 'Group think' (ie The King's new clothes syndrome).

Anyway Alana thank you once again for taking the time and trouble to answer my posting. I would say that I'm sure you have better things to do than address the concerns of a middle aged man who lives 3000 miles away, but in truth I don't think you do as I'm hoping you'll take off the blindfold of religion and see the world in a new and far more exciting light.

As always keep well, enjoy the sunshine of Israel.
Chris Hill
(Lancaster)

PS.
I'll keep posting short comments on your latest postings if that's OK with you, but I'll try not to monopolise the comment section like this again. Does your family back in the US follow your blog?

Dr Chris Hill said...

Hi Alana,

Just a quick addition to my response to your 'Pascal's wager' argument. I've been reading the Bible a bit more and found this in Luke 18: lines 18-22, Jesus is responding to the question what a man must (note the word must) do to get into heaven.

Jesus answers the man's question by saying:
..................................

'Sell everything you have and give it to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come follow me.'

...................................

OK you are doing what you believe is necessary to follow Jesus, but as (I assume) you have not sold everything you own: ie. your car, your bi-cycle, your record player, your computer, your TV set, your camera etc, I'm afraid it's simply not enough! You have not followed all of Jesus stated requirements for entry into heaven, so I'm very much afraid you are going to suffer the same fate as myself, BURNING IN HELL FOR ALL ETERNITY!

There is also a bit of a catch 22 with this one. If a person does sell everything they own, then it stands to reason that someone must buy them, and by doing so are themselves doomed to hell's fire for eternity. This, I'm sure, would play on your conscience and stop you enjoying your time in heaven.

Face it Alana religion is total nonsense!

From
Chris Hill
(Lancaster)

PS.
If I'm wrong and we do both end up in hell, bring a guitar and we can all have a good old-fashioned singsong around the fire.

Dr Chris Hill said...

Wikipedia's entry on Groupthink:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_think

Dr Chris Hill said...

Hi Alana,

I hope you're enjoying your Easter break, if indeed Easter is an official break in the Israeli school term, but can I ask if you've thought about any of the questions I've posed here?

I'm not trying to be pushy, but over the last couple of months I've left quite a few relevant questions about religion, on your blog, without getting anything other than a very unsatisfactory reply to a few, and no reply at all to most of them. Could you at least try to let me have answers to some of the bigger ones?

Yes I know I'm a guest on your blog, and I respect the fact that it's more to do with keeping the folks back home in touch with your progress, than it is an attempt at evangelism, but when you get the time a quick reply to some of my questions would be very much appreciated.

I've stopped posting on the current story, as you requested, to leave the comment section open for your family and friends.


As always please accept I mean no offence, and I know it may seem a little cheeky to ask for reply, but faint heart never got to the truth now did it?

Keep well
Chris Hill
(Lancaster)